L: I've lived in a flat for two and a half years. It's just around the corner. I sort of got a different idea of how I see everyone and how I live with people now than I had before. Everyone else has been there the whole time It's kind of interesting that you're talking to me about it because it's probably different.

MRR: Why did you get your own place? Was it privacy?

L: Because it's gone on so long. We've all been together for so long. Talking about personal dynamics, it's really strange because it's so involved, like family or something. It's really complicated to explain to someone in 10 words or something, I don't think I would have gone out and looked for somewhere son my own because of a big problem or something that I was sick of I had lived on my own before and I'd lived with Anne in a flat and I really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed living with everyone. There were problems with lots of people coming to stay. Even though it's a big house and everything, people tend to think it'much bigger than it actually is because it looks big. But every room is someone's bedroom apart from the kitchen, and that's the communal room. So if a bunch of Germans arrived, someone would have to donate their bedroom. If you went into the kitchen it was quite oppressive. I enjoyed having people come to stay, and we met some really nice people, but it was a bit much. I'm the sort of person who likes to get up and have my breakfast on my own, and then meet people after I've done that. So that was getting to me, it had nothing to do with the people in the house, it was the visitor thing. I'm not that laid back, where I'll say "Hi, come in! I'll make you loads of food!" It was bad, but it wasn't that I was depressed and ready to go out and find a place to live. A friend of ours around the corner had a really nice flat where we used to go for baths because we didn't have any hot water. When he was leaving he asked if we wanted someone to sign on and get the dole money paid for it so that we could continue having hot water. After he left. I thought about it and thought "why don't I try living there?" So I told everyone and they told me to try it. I could come back if it didn't work out. So I lived about half my time at the flat ad half at the house. If we're practising every night at the house I'll just stay there. Sometimes I don't go to the flat for ages. It's just nice to have it there and we use it for other people to stay. But sometimes I feel like I'm not doing things properly. I'm not really living on my own. People who live on their own, even if they have friends, are a bit isolated. It's important to be really independent, in a way, but I'm not. It's stupid to think of giving up what I'm doing just to achieve independence. It's like being in a relationship that's really good. I've been in a relationship for quite a long time and I don't feel like a "married " person or whatever. And I don't want to be like that. But I don't want to give up something that's really good just to prove to myself that I'm totally independent. But anyway, I've got the best of both worlds.

MRR: It sounds like it. Tell me some history of the group house. How did it come about? Was it a conscious decision of the band to live together or did it just happen out of convenience?

L: It was a conscious decision but it was also convenient. Originally, a group of people we knew lived there, but not communally. It had been vandalised - the windows were damaged and there had been a fire and stuff like that at that point Boff, Dan, Dunst and another guy were all living in Leeds and saw the possibilities of the house and living together. At that point Anne and I were living together in Burnley. We helped them move into the house. I was in the band then as well but it was in the beginning stages. I would come over to the house to practice. we helped decorate it but I thought I could never live there. It was really bad: wind whistling through; we had to make a fire in the middle of the room to cook on. We had quite a nice place in Burnley but as we were working on the house it seemed more possible that we could actually live there with no water. Quite soon, we actually moved in. There were also personal things with that. Often women sort of give up their lives to live with men. I sometimes still resent it in a way. But the life I had wasn't anywhere near to the life I could have in Leeds. So it was sort of the pity it was us that had to move, instead of them. But the house was brilliant. There was a lot going on in Leeds that I was really into. Harry and Mave - we sort of met them later. They were still in school and were in a punk band. Do you know the "Bullshit Detector" record? They were on one that we were on; it's the only track I really like . We saw both of them play in a local gig and we went to see them . We all got on really well immediately, even though they were 2 young schoolkids. It was amazing! Soon they came to stay. Quite often people come and they want to move in immediately. They just see the good things about it. Especially very young people: it's a commune and they really want to live there.

MRR:It seems like some kind of utopia.

L: They actually did live with their parents. But normally when young boys like that come, I just can't be bothered. I think it's really difficult to actually relate to them . But with them, it was totally different. It was only me and Anne in the house when they came and we really got on well. they decided to move in: we had a lot of stuff in common. A couple of people have left. There has been some coming and going. But mainly, it's been all of us, all the time.

MRR: Do you think it's helped the band to have you all living together? Or is it mostly convenience?

L: It's definitely helped. It's not really a question of living together helping the band. The band is really not that big compared to the fact that we all live together and we do things together as friends. We've gone through certain periods - like Cobie (live sound engineer)'s just had a baby and we haven't practiced for a very long time. It doesn't make that much difference to our lives. The band is quite small. When we do something like this tour it's the band, the band, the band. But we're all involved in other things that are quite or more important to us. When we do an interview the band is the most important thing and it's not really like that for us. But I do think that the fact that we live together has helped the band because we can practice whenever we want. It's easier. And it's easier to work together, because we know each other really well. When i talk to people in other bands who live in different places and come together just to practice, there's a lot of things that go on that we really don't have to deal with.

MRR:Do you think that the chemistry for coming up with ideas, subjects for songs, music, riffs and all of that comes more naturally since you are all living together, and it comes out of day-to-day routine. Or are there times when you just talk about band stuff or just living together?

L: It's really difficult for me to say because I've never been in another band. When I hear other people talking about what it's like to work songs out or get new songs, I can't understand how you can be with people who you hardly know and - since for me it has a lot to do with confidence - put forward their ideas and be a musician or whatever. It requires a certain type of person, and I don't feel that's what I would like. Because of the way I feel about everyone else, it enables me to do this thing! I actually wanted to do something like this ages ago but couldn't find the people to do it with. I knew I wanted to put ideas across but it took me so long to be able to sing, even infront of these people. I think we've helped each other in that way. I don't think I'd be in another band if this band ended. It's hard to say. Sometimes it;s a bit insular. Originally when we all lived in that house, we didn't know anyone in Leeds for a long time and we didn't go out. We were very strict about everything and worked on the house. That was a really insular time. We weren't really involved in the punk scene at all. We'd play gigs but it was really weird. We were into the same things we are now, in a way, just much more fascistic. We weren't overtly political but we were into shocking people whether they liked it or not. We were off on our little thing together and we were really happy about it. It's really weird. Now we know loads of people in Leeds and we've all got separate lives. We've grown up together in a way. I used to think that we knew each other and a few other people in the scene, but that was it. We never had conversations with anyone outside our little thing. Now it's totally more relaxed.

MRR: Do you think that's come from just spending more time in Leeds? Or was it more forced?

L: I think it's form being in Leeds. If I had moved to Leeds on my own I would have done what I'm doing now ages ago. I don't see it as a bad thing, what i went through; it was a real learning experience. It was brilliant. Often people don't meet a group of people that they can work with in that way. Also - and I can only speak for myself, I can't speak for other people - it's great to come through it and feel that I'm quite happy with my life now that I've broken out of the house. It's difficult to motivate yourself to do things when you can just stay there with other people, doing things with them. It was easiest for use to do things together since it was like family and we knew each other really well. It you're alone, its' a challenge: you go work with other people and there's obviously something really good about that, but now I feel like I can do both. One of the people who left was really sort of cynical when he left. It had to do with the dynamics of what was going on in the house

MRR: Was it because of how rigid it was?

L: Yes, because when he left, he didn't want anything to do with politics at all. It was from him too; it wasn't like it was only other people putting it on him. He was the first vegan and was always telling people what to do.. as soon as he left - and we almost had to tell him to go - he started eating meat, had nothing to do with politics, had nothing to do with us. Now ,we get along fine with him when we see him, he has a laid back life....but I feel glad that we've come through what we went through. I know everyone is relaxed with each other. There's a lot going on all the time. But in general it's laid back now.

MRR:Your friendships still seem really strong. If you're on tour - a stressful tour - and you're able to laugh with each other and look out for each other, you're doing great!

L: And we've all seen the worst of everyone. We've come through it and that's sort of unusual. We've all exposed ourselves to each other. I've been a complete zxxx sometimes when I have PMS or whatever. In the past I didn't realise what it was and I'd be really worked up about things whereas now I know and I just stay in my flat and try to give the best to everyone. We just have to work that out as we go along but because you've seen the worse in everyone you feel you can't do anything else and it's really relaxed. I never talk about this kind of stuff. It's not totally perfect all the tims. Someitmes we go too far. But for the most part we sort things out.

MRR:What about the structure of the house? Is it still communal?

L: Totally. The only thing that's really changed - and it's not easy for me to talk about it because i'm not involved in it - is the money. we used to have communal money because none of us used to work. We gradually all got jobs and at first the money from the jobs went in the "pot". We used to be really together when we were strict: saving up for the band or the first single that we did. We all got £24 a week and we lived on porridge, literally. We saved up for the record. Then people started jobs and the money went into the pot. So we had some extra . we just used to buy whatever we needed. There really never was any argument about the money. If somebody wanted a record or something, they'd just get it and no one would feel any animosity. The money wasn't important. It was really natural the way we did it. No one could ever believe it. I thought, when I first moved in, that it would be really weird. But it wasn't because everyone was responsible and no one abused it. Later, people wanted to buy things and they'd get a job just for that. That's when it started breaking down. Now, people more or less have their own money.

MRR: Does that work out alright?

L: There are times when there are arguments about money. which there never used to be. Quite often it doesn't come out because the whole relationship is much more laid back. I think people are frightened to change it or do anything about it. Everyone puts money into the communal pot still, the same amount as when we were on the dole. But they also keep money, so if we go out or something, it's everyone's personal money, where it never used to be. So it's gradually breaking down. It's not a real problem. Ever since I left I have my own money, so I don't have anything to do with it. I can observe what's going on and I've seen different people getting kind of pissed off about how there's no money in the pot, but everyone's got their own. But it's really got nothing to do with me. I still buy things for the house because I eat there almost every night. That's another thing that's still communal, we all take turns at cooking and everyone's a really good cook.

MRR: Does it just happen, or is it scheduled?

L: It just happens. It's gone on for so long. At one point we did have a discussion about havng rules for cleaning the house but it's all natural now, we never talk about it. Every night I come home from work and have a really nice meal. On my day off or on weekends I cook a really nice meal. That was one thing when I lived there: I worked at a vegetarian cafe at one point and I was really into cooking. I used to cook like 3 times a week for the house because I really liked it. But i started to resent it because other people got really blase about not cooking. Now, because I work all the time, I just do it once a week

MRR: So now there are 4 women in the house. Are there any weird male/female dynamics or gender conflicts?

L: There are

MRR: Are the problems unique one, since everyone's in the band together?

L: To be honest, I don't think we really come to grips about things sometimes since we're so blase about living together. At one time we were really into thrashing everything out and I was really into stating my position. Now, I'm so happy that I get on with everyone. there is no arguing about every little issue. Often, I'm wary about saying anything about something that's important to me especially when it comes to feminism, or how we're women and they're men. And that seems to be the same all over, at the moment, to me. At one time, feminism was a big issue and everyone talked about it. Now - and I don't think it's just our house but other palces as well - it's much more laid back and it's not as right-on to say something about a comment being sexist. For instance I just hear so many more men saying - and I don't know if it's just in England - "cunts" or "twats" as an insult to someone. That used to be pretty taboo and now it's really right-on. People seem to be saying it.

MRR: It's the same here.

L: Some ot the men in the house have said it, and I don't like it. A few years ago I would have geen going crazy. But now..

MRR: It's the same here

L: Some of the men in the house have said it, and I don't like it. A few years ago I would have been going crazy. But now...

MRR: Can't you talk about things any more? Or do you think that the person who says it doesn't mean harm when he says it?

L: I think he knows it's offensive but he's using it anyway, for his own reasons

MRR: Do you think the level of understanding has changed?

L: I think so. But I still don't like it and I don't like it even more if I think he's doing it to shock me. I haven't said that to the person who says it. I actually said I didn't like it, but I waited until we were getting along really well and he hasn't said it since. I think it was a reaction to being so strict and always worrying about what we were saying. It's like worrying about what you're eating: it's nice to be more relaxed. There's other little things, like when the World Cup was on, and all the men were watching football all the time. It creates issues that we have to sort out. I don't want to be someone who tells people off for watching football because that's out of order, I think. If people want to watch football, that's fine. When we first all lived together, none of the men would have dreamt of watching football. But later they all got into it, apart from Dan. A lot of men in Leeds have gotten into it. I don't know what it's like here, but the games are absolutely horrendous to go to. The crowd is totally racist and sexist - it's unbelievable. That's why I don't really like going. And I'm not interested in the game either. The thing that makes me think - like when the World Cup was on - was that they were dominating the television completely. That's fine; if there was a big thing on every night that I wanted to watch, I'd watch it. The difference is, Anne and I thought, is that we would ask if it's OK. Especially since I don't even live there, if I'm there and I want to watch Dallas or something that no one else likes, that's really crap, I'd say "Do you mind if I watch it?" But me and Anne would never dream of putting the television on and just screaming, dominating the room so that everyone else has to go out. I'm thinking that the issue is confidence. They would just do that and not think anything of it. I think that's really weird. It did create an issue. I tried to get into it because I like everyone and I'm happy with the situation. Me and Cobie actually watched a match and got into it a bit! And I didn't mind it, in fact I enjoyed it. It's just that men will do that. It you go to someone's house, they'll just put the television on and just watch it.

MRR: Do you do things that might slightly offend the men? Like when the men say "cunt" - if you reverse the genders, is there an equivalent for what the women do?

L: I think I've become less offensive than I used to be as I wasn't as happy with my own life as I am now. I think I'm much easier to get along with now. I'm nowhere near the most laidback person but I think I am better. But about how the women treat the men - I want to be honest, but I just can't think of anything! It's interesting, because I've never really thought about it. I just think that things have gotten better. And we know each other so well. With me, Anne and Cobie we're loads more tolerant of each other as we've been together for so long. There are times when we're really close or we're not, but it's never one way or the other. Cobie has only been there for two years, but there used to be another women living there called Diane. If we had been doing this interview then, it would be very different because there was a lot of trauma then. We had to ask Diane to leave; she was very young and the house was the only place she knew in Leeds. She wasn't happy there. I feel that if that sort of thing happened now, We'd deal with it in a much better way. I didn't have any patience with her back then; I tried. Now I think we could work it out. Anne and I relate to each other really well. And we get along well with Cobie, but she's totally different. We're from a different country. It seems that women in Holland are very reserved. If Anne and I are gossiping about people, she's not into it at all. I suppose it's a negative thing to do in some ways, and she won't get into it. But we all get along well.

MRR: Does having a baby around (Mave and Cobie's baby) make things different, or better?

L: It's funny, because when she was pregnant I thought that this would change everything. Other people who have children were saying that we wouldn't know what had hit us, that it would be so different from just living together. But it's just been so easy. She had the baby at home and it was absolutely amazing! We were all into it; we were all there. It's been no problem. She's only a little baby and they don't really do anything. We'll see when she starts walking around. She's been to gigs and it's really nice. For Mavis and Cobie, it's really a lot of hard work, so they can not cook or clean the house for a long time, and even though we're not all constantly helping with Sally, we can help by running the house. When we go to a gig, they'll look after her and we'll get everything together for the gig. It's work but it's fine.

MRR: That's good that it's all working out

L: It would be nice if there was a little more room in the house! If there was a living room it would be nice. A while ago I thought about having one myself. I talked about it with everyone in the house and Harry wasn't into the idea at all. That wasn't the reason I didn't, because I had just been thinking about it, but it seemed that there would always be someone who wouldn't be into it. I have no idea - I'm not maternal or anything....but everybody's really into it. I used to think, when I thought I'd be the first one to have a baby, that everyone in the house would just spoil the child and give into it all the time, and it would have too many grandparents. But now I see that won't happen with Sally. Everyone helps out and shares responsibility - though, of course some people have more responsibility than others - but no one gives in too much. I guess generally after all this time we've gotten a little more lax. Like the house looks really good - but it's looked this good for a long time. At this stage we should probably be looking into buying a place together or at least getting the financial thing worked out. No one wants to rock the boat. If someone gave us the money, we'd get a place together. But now no one wants to sit down and talk about it and figure out how to save the money and all of that. So there's a negative side to being laidback: it gets a little stagnant.