A: Yeah, but I used to pretend that I didn't

MRR: I'd like to talk about the expectations people have of the band and how you go about dealing with it

A: If it's me personally, then I'm more defensive than most people. I'm less laid back, and tend to be rude to people and then regret it later. But if you talk to Boff he can sort of get his point across and be really resonable.

MRR: Before you came over here, Chumba had this reuptation - which I'm sure happens over there all the time, maybe because you were like it, or the way people interpreted the community you're connected with - as being militant

A: I think we are militant

MRR: I mean, militant vegan, where diet comes first over everything A: The reason we've got this reputation is partially our fault. We never did write animal rights songs but we were like that in the beginning. All of us were militant vegans for about 5 years but gradually slipped in the odd bit of cheese when we were on tour. Now most of us eat eggs and cheese. Not all of us, some people are still vegan. But at the beginning we were so into it. I remember, and I'm a bit embarrassed by it, saying "Oh, they're nice shoes. They're not leather, are they? I'm gonna get a pair of them ". I wore pumps over winter rather than wear leather and had wet feet

MRR: Be the martyr...

A:...rather than wear leather. So I was really embarrassed because they weren't leather and I had been making all these assumptions about people

MRR: Some guy came up to me last night and said "I heard Chumbawamba aren't vegans" with a real serious look on his face

A: I get mad when people expect us to be different from normal human beings. They don't expect us to be really ordinary. Part of the reason I think it's all right, me getting mad every so often, is because if they put us up on a pedestal then it's fine for me to react like anyone else would react. Sometimes I'm resasonable but it depends how reasonable they are with me. Occasionally they can go away not liking that and I don't care because that's what life's like and human nature's like. You don't have to like everybody and just because I'm in a band doesn't mean I behave any differently than other people. So,we've never done animal rights songs on record and felt that other people were doing that and we should cover other things that weren't so predictable. But, part of the reson we've got this reputation is that in the beginning we were so close knit. We are still close for a band, but we go our seperate ways as well. But in the beginning we did do things all together, we were vegans all togerter. Me and Harry gave up smoking. We were on this economy drive and rather than buy fags, we picked up a tab end and smoked it. Now it seems completely ridiculous but then it seemed normal because we've got to save money, etc. There were so many other compensations, like being together and having a good time that I didn't realise how weird it were until later. We've got this reputation as jokers, so we got away with it in terms of people meeting us and not thinking we were weird. We'd alway make jokes about ourselves and other people, and not be serious. So people liked us even though we were strict. I think slowly, everybody individually found their own level of tolerance in what they wanted to do. It's also this "rock" thing

MRR: How does that develop?

A: I've done it...I went to see the Jam

MRR: I had a big discussion with someone about that the other day. I said "how come only dumb bands make great music? Skrewdriver's early punk records are so great but look what they turned into" And this women goes "what about the Jam?" And I go "well, what about them? They didn't amount to much either"

A: I never did adore going to see people. I think that's like a male/female thing, like getting your identity through your boyfriend and attaching yourself to somebody. It took a long time to smooth that out in me head, that you don't need to be attached to somebody to have some formal identity. Things happen in stages though and I definitely remember fancying people because of their status. I wanted to go out with the lad who was the cock of the school, the guy who can beat anybody else up. So I can see how with bands that it's status if you know 'em. But it's ridiculous because as soon as you're in a band and start meeting other bands and other people that do things, then you realise how ordinary people are.

MRR: People probably do that to bands more than anything else because there's so much emphasis put on them. Even in punk rock, when it started and there was this thing that anybody can get up there and do it and start a band, even that is gone and it's "I'll pay my money and watch a band"

A: I think it's great when people come and say "I found that really inspiring" because inspiring is different than following. We want people to like what we do, but on the other hand we don't want people to think... this woman in LA I was talking to in the toilet said "Oh, I can't believe I'm talking to you" I was more or less struck dumb. I was saying "Why?" I said "I am ordinary" but even as I was saying that it was as though I had to act modest or something. I were a bit freaked out. And I stayed longer to talk to her than I would've done just because I wanted her to see that I was as tongue-tied as she were and that to be in a band you don't have to be some special type. I'm not musical, I've never professed to be musical and never will be. So all these people that think there's this thing you can do that they can't, is ridiculous.

MRR: I think the main thing is if the band leaves themselves accessible to the audience.

A: It's funny, but when we get to a gig it's rare that people spend all night in the dressing room. We go the gig as well. If anybody wants to talk to us, we'll talk

MRR: Do you think people put more expectations on "political" bands?

A: Different expectations. You get people who would die for Jimi Hendrix, don't ya? With the Rolling Stones, they expect them to be drugged out of their heads and they are, so they aren't disappointed

MRR: But in the punk community, or anarchist punk community, people watch every move to see what contradictions exist

A: In a way, that's why I'd be rude to people if they're rude to me. A guy came up to me at the end of the Klub Kommotion gig. I were really hot and sweaty and picked up a can of beer to drink, and he says "Do you know what Millers are involved in?" And I actually didn't and said "No, no I don't" And he said they're involved in giving money to Jesse Helms. And I thought "Oh my god. I really want to drink this, I'm dying." So I said "Well look, just let me drink this. I don't go out of my way to buy Millers". He looked at me as though I should be pouring it away. I wasn't going to do that. We had already bought it. He weren't rude to me so I weren't rude to him. I knew he was dying to point out that I was drinking Millers, and he knew about it and I didn't but I partially think that's his problems. But in other situations, like me wearing make-up sometimes and people coming up and saying "You shouldn't be wearing make-up", people 10 years younger than me ordering me about, thinking they've got that power. They've got expectations of me, but they're still hanging onto that male power without realising it, coming up and trying to dominate and dictate. I'm instantly angry because it's more than 1 issue, more than just Chumbawamba; it's in terms of men and women. People think there's 1 way and you have got to do it, like what we call the vegan fascists. I don't see that as an alternative, more like the left policing each other. I think I'm responsible enough to make up me own mind about how I want to look and what I want to do. There's been other occasions where I've been mad. where people have complained that we've got a telly and they've got a telly in their house

MRR: That's what I was getting at, as far as people putting higher expectations on poitical bands. Would that guy have tapped your shoulder about Miller beer if you were just a cock rock band?

A: I doubt it very much. But even though it was moral oneupmanship on his part, it was good information. It only bothers me if it's for the wrong reasons. If somebody's nice and wants to have a discussion, then we'll talk but if they're trying to bully me, then I won't discuss it and I'll be sarcastic or rude. Everybody's got to find a level that they're comfortable with. It's easy for me to give up milk because I don't like milk anymore. It's easy to give up meat, I don't miss it. It's not easy for me to give up cigarettes. I'm not giving up smoking because I'm not comfortable with it, you know? And yes, I could give up coffee, I'd buy Nicaraguan coffee if it was there on the shelf, but I am lax about a lot of things and I'm not ashamed of that because I just accept it. And I'll talk about it with anyone who wants to talk about it , you know? At the time of "Pictures..." I wasn't drinking coffee but that's changed and we've had arguments about what we were going to do in the past. Dan once wrote an anti-smoking song and I smoke, so I said "If you think that Chumbawamba are going to go and do an anti-smoking song, and then I'm going to walk off and have a cigarette", you know? And I'm not going to give up smoking... so we had a long discussion about it and we just don't do things if we're in that position. Things change. We've never said "This is it and this is how it's going to be", you know? I think that everything that we've ever done we've tried to change from project to project.

MRR: And that's also a constant learning process when you're talking about politics and information, how you go about living your day-to-day life

A: Yes. You see, for me I know cash crops and stuff matter, but I'm also a slob, you know?

MRR: What do you mean by that? A: What I mean is that I smoke, I don't do any exercise and, in terms of self-indulgence, you know, just things that I like doing.

MRR: It's like in San Francisco food and diet are the main issues discussed in the scene and it bores the fuck out of me, and I'm pretty serious about my diet, but I don't talk about it at all and it's not just because it's a reaction to all these other people talking about it at all, it's just it's not a big issue with me

A: Yes. See, when I was vegan, which was for the last 4 years, I never talked about it becuase you don't. It's just like a habit and it's a really easy habit to keep up, and it's boring when people start pointing to something when someone's picked something up and start going like this with the ingredients list.

MRR: The food police and the intake police, you know?

A: Yes. And like Boff doesn't drink or smoke or anything like that. Why should I have a problems with it? He doesn't have a problem with the way I am. I have problems with people who are really heavily into drugs and I know that sound like a bit of a contradcition, but just because I know people who are so into dope that you can't have an intelligent conversation with them

MRR: I'm the same way, I mean I don't do drugs at all and I don't mind that some of my friends casually use them, but once they start fucking up then it does upset me and I do draw the line and say "hold it" and as a freind I have to help you out here, or as a friend say "get the fuck away from here because you've got to do this on your own"

A: See, it's just the thing that like if someone's excessively drunk I don't particularly like them because I feel like you've got a responsibility and in some ways I am quite strict with myself, even though I call myself a slob, but you do have a responsibility to how you act and behave with other poeple.... and that drugs aren't any excuse. If you treat someone badly because you're drunk, you treat someone badly and there's no excuse. You got drunk . And I feel that way about myself, and I have either to make it right or accept that I have done that and live with it. But the thing I don't like about drugs is that people claim diminished responsibility and it's not fair because they can't claim diminished responsibilty because they took them.

MRR: One thing that I've noticed that happens around here is that people used to be really really militant about all their views and then they sort of frown on things and put themselves in this sort of ghetto and it was a bad thing, but they got out of it and then they go to the other extreme as sort of being completely lax. Sort of going against everything they believed in as a way of rebelling against everything they were rebelling against at one time. It's always been kind of frustrating, cynicism at it's worst

A: I've seen it lots of times myself, to the point where I find it really maddening, especially in terms of women and men, and how everything's laidback now and nice, and we don't need to try anymore, and that's not the way I feel about it. It's not that I want to constantly pick someone up about what they've saying or doing, but let's stop pretending that we're so laidback that we don't have to put any effort into relationships and how we deal with people. I've seen it too much.

MRR: Back to the policing type of thing. What was one of the most absurd ones?

A: People checking ingredients of something while you're eating it because you're in Chumbawamba. There's too many of them and they're all similar.

MRR: Does if happen at almost every show, you think?

A: It happens an awful lot. Especially with visitors at our house. We get some people that are really laidback and then you get some people that are marching around looking on shelves. Then they get into big discussions with us on how we've let them down when really it's just their expectations, it's not what we are. And to explain to somebody that just because we're in a band don't mean that we're any different from normal people, and don't mean that you have the right to come to our house when we're feeding and putting you up to start insulting us. If you don't like it, fuck off. Well, I would go for that approach after protracted discussion. But they get really really mad about it. The best one is probably when Harry had leather boots on in our kitchen and this bloke asked Harry to take his boots off because he said they offended him, and this is like some dude we never met before and came to our house

MRR: What did Harry do?

A: Harry got really mad, he had an argument with him

MRR: Anything else?