'Menwith Hill'
[Menwith Hill was a common early Chumbawamba 'demo' song--it never showed up on any 'official' release, though--the article/interview reprinted the lyrics for this song.]
They dug a hole on land not theirs
Filled it with computers
Called it Menwith Hill
Seven floors down hidden from view
'Official secrets' don't let us know
How they spend money while people starve The[y] call it progress, this year[']s thing 1984 they're listening in
Technology made them robot people
And tap our phones, watch our lives
Destroy the trust th[a]t we should share Listening to everything that we say
Silencing the little that we can say
Watching what we do in every way, in every way But they can't hear desire
And they can't see thoughts
The[y] can't see the traces
Of the spark inside me
Wanting to be free

Chumbawamba are obviously a band most people have heard of, their individuality in their songs, both music wise, their lyrics show their intelligence, and the theatre work that they do at their gigs, proving how important those lyrics really are, make Chumbawamba stand out amongst the hundreds of bands with the same feelings. They are a band that are not interested in listing their line up, giving out photos, logos, their music is very appealing. It's not three chord thrash, more slower, more melodic, the lyrics are very easy to make out through all the varying speeds/styles in their songs, in fact, I fail to see how anyone can dislike them. I should think that people from all ages and walks of life could easily listen to them, and everyone can learn something. I cannot think of a word to sum up how excellent this band are. They are the most inspiring band I have ever come across and liable to come across, extremely thought provoking, all I can say is to go and see them if you get the chance. Write to the band, send a blank tape and SAE (or IRCs) for their demo's [Chumbawamba no longer provide this demo service], read their literature, a very friendly group of people, all sharing one big house. If they can do it, you can too:

Sky and Trees, Box 459 Cookridge Street, Leeds 2, England [This address is now defunct]

This interview was done Nov. 21, 1984:

FS: Where did you get the idea to do theatre work along with your songs at gigs? Did the theatre work come before the music? Will you be carrying it on?

CW: The idea to mix theatre and song isn't new, there's a long tradition of this sort of thing amongst other types of music, unfortunately the rock and roll traditions have instead used swiveling hips [later praised by Mavis as revolutionary], sneers, guitar-phallus posing, etc., as substitutes for theatre. I suppose closer to hand there's musicals, West Side Story, etc., or in the sixties there were bands like Zappa's Mothers, Bonzo Dog Band, who used visuals to complement the music. The way we use it helps a lot. It is an aid to make what we are saying/singing about, so much clearer. That clarity is very important to us. We've been in different bands before Chumbawamba, but we've used theatre before in a different way. The problem may be that, whereas you can see a band and get something out of it quite a lot of times, you get bored if you watch a film more than twice. It's a challenge to have to change the theatre parts. It's much harder than changing the music, or so it seems. We'll carry on using theatre as long as it's useful and interesting.

FS: Do you think that the visuals have the effect that you want? Do most people seem to like it?

CW: The effect is often that a certain visual image fixes in someone's mind longer than a tune or a sentence. I think most people like it. Maybe because we live in a TV society where we've been brought up to be able to concentrate on visuals!

FS: What is the track 'Menwith Hill' about? I.E., the radio talk and the place itself?

CW: Menwith Hill is a U.S. spy base about 15 miles from Leeds. It's the second target in event of a nuclear attack, as it acts as wartime communications headquarters for U.S. forces here. Also, it is linked with the G.P.O. post office tower at nearby Hunters Stones. Secretly, of course. The reason for this hushed up link is because Menwith Hill is the biggest phone-tapping center in Europe: the U.K. government uses its technical services for tapping U.K. phones, using a 'key word' code. If you mention 'BOMB' or 'ROYALTY' or 'CND' or 'STOP THE CITY' or one thousand other key words, there's a chance that Menwith Hill will automatically tape your conversation. There's a peace camp there now.

FS: Are all the band employed? You seem very strongly against work. How about college? Do the DHSS ever check up on you?

CW: At the moment most of us are unemployed. Diane is at the university. We're not averse to work, only to the employment ethic. Work as an end in itself. Work which helps make governments strong and people weak. The issue of employment--whilst relevant in terms of how people are kept docile through socialization--is a red herring. If we lived in a society where pleasure-for-all was the only aim, then much of today's useless work employment would disappear. Why should people work making scented toilet paper? Why should people work printing government newspapers? We all need to work to survive. I want to work for people not bosses. I want to work and enjoy it, not work and play for my leisure. The DHSS aren't stupid and we have to be careful. We take the government's money from them because stopping them spending it on bombs is worth more than our pride. Stealing can be a moral duty.

FS: You obviously have the ability to play your instruments, taking account that you went under a false name ['Skin Disease'] to record for an oi E.P. [The track 'I'm Thick']. Would you ever do the same for a typically pop record? I.E., taking a false name, record a few demo tracks, and send it to a major label? Either pulling out after signing contracts or going the full way with it?

CW: Well, we have thought about it and we are working on a similar theme. But not in the way you mean. We're not, by [the] way, very good musicians. Our strength is in our use of the little ability we have as musicians.

FS: have you ever wrote to Sounds, telling them that your track on the oi E.P. was a joke? Thus making Bushell come across as the idiot he obviously is?

CW: No. We were content at that time--two and a half or three years ago--to sit back and laugh at the Sounds Bushell crap. In hindsight, we could have done much more, but I don't think it would be easy to make Bushell seem more of an idiot than he actually is! It was more our own personal way of attacking the oi themes, than a way of publicizing its drawbacks, etc. But the fault was ours for not letting everyone know it at the time.

FS: You mentioned Dan Chumba [probably Danbert Nobacon] doing a publicized stunt in the Thorn/EMI building. Would you like to comment on this?

CW: Well, in view of all the shit EMI dish out to people, it's about time they got some back. I'd better not explain how!

FS: How do you think the 'Stop The City' in Leeds differed to those in London? Any stories about the protests you'd like to mention? What did you think of the 'Big City'?

CW: Stop The City is, I think, a dead demo. We need to find something as new and challenging as STC 1 and 2 were in '83. Leeds STC was successful in that it did try to change things, changing the way STC had become a routine demo. The actions were not done as part of, but undercover of, the main demo. The actions--there were around 50 effective and interesting actions--were mostly carried out by people dressed in suits, dresses, etc. More importantly, almost none of the people for breaches, obstruction, etc., but few for actual damages [sic]. The London STC was disappointing in that no fundamental change had taken place. The police were easily able to contain the demo. Most effective actions occurred outside the city. Trafalgar square fountain dyed red, Soho shops smashed, etc. But it's nice how HMV records seem to be targets for paint bombs nowadays.

[FS Note:]
Some of the actions which took place at the Leeds STC, taken from Boffo's [Boff] article in Raising Heck 'Zine: Barclays Bank; red paint attack/fake blood or meat in Safeway; HMV records torn covers, half-price stickers; parking meters false out of order bags; Plaza cinema doors chained up; porn mags torn and stickered; 70 pounds ($) of goods checked out and left; Safeway bomb scare; evacuation at Lewis'; Tory party headquarters window smashed, City center fountain full of soap suds--just some of the 36 actions listed.

FS: Do any foreign bands interest you? What do you think of the European/U.S. scenes?

CW: Personally, I think it's important that we learn something from each other and not just trade different cultures. I think some foreign music can be really interesting, from Crucifucks to Kukl. What can U.S. thrash bands tell me about America, McDonald's, cruise missiles--I'm literally asking for that information, it's important in terms of how we can get rid of all the plastic crap the U.S. imports. What can we learn from European music? Well what about squatting, organizing resistance, etc. We must communicate our ideas. The scenes are catalysts for real action. Hopefully the music should give it that push into movement.

FS: What U.K. bands do you like? Do you still think that there's still a big gap between the different types of bands?

CW: I like some defunct bands that inspired me to get up and do something more than just play rock 'n' roll, like ATV, Fall, etc. And bands in the U.K. now who are inspiring me to thing about things. Like Crass, Flux, No Defences, etc. Actually, I like people in bands more than the bands themselves, is most cases. For instance, I think Instigators are not the kind of band whose music inspires me, but as people they're really positive, well thought out individuals. And ultimately that's what's important. Also, bands like Ins[t]igators are trying to fill in those gaps between the types of bands, though whether it's successful I'm not sure.

FS: Are there any bands who you would not play with? Would you ever support a different type of band to gain a wider audience?

CW: There are bands we wouldn't play with, bands with whom we don't feel good or relaxed. But that doesn't mean we categorically wouldn't play with Iron Maiden or Barry Manilow. It's just that in their case, it would be unusual for them to be playing the same door price as we'd stipulate! Next month we're playing a miner's benefit with the three Johns. It's a socialist workers party, so it should be interesting.

FS: Although you obviously wouldn't sell out, would you ever go out to get a wider audience? As the different styles of your music could easily appeal to more people.

CW: Yes, we would. We do have to compromise in some ways in order to avoid getting boxed in and useless. But, we do have to draw the line somewhere. We've seen bands who want a wider audience, their door prices go up, their records get dearer, their principles fall, and their audience gets less and less militant in their attitudes. You can't sell the non-violent revolution on top of the pops! You can sell the slogans, but you always lose the heart, the inspiration. I saw the Redskins on the tube and was surprised at how much of their dignity they managed to salvage from such a shit-glittery cattle market. But to see the signs of their cliche Marxisms getting hyped and diluted and ridiculed. The Jam found out that you can't change the world, or even a bit of it, with soul music. Dance music is for feet, not heads, and radio music is for wallpaper, so...

FS: What's the connection between Chumbawamba and Passion Killers?

CW: Artmie/Daz [Harry Hammer] was a Passion Killer and moved in with us and with Dave Passion Killer. Then Dave left to live with his girlfriend and form a new band, Vegan Trifles. They want to put the fun back into anarchy and peace! Artmie/Daz joined Chumbawamba about a year ago. His dad [Jimmy Echo] is a club/cabaret singer and had a single on EMI in the sixties. He has a brother and sister and they live in Barnsley. His birthday is on the fifth of March.

FS: How long have you held the views that you have? What do you think started you thinking the way you do?

CW: Personally, I started thinking this out for myself whilst at school, but it wasn't until about four years ago that I really sorted out what was going on in the world. And it's only in the past three years that I've been working towards solutions to these problems. Punk had a lot to do with it, later, Crass. And people of course, who bothered to question things with me. Seeing a Crass video made Dan decide to become a vegetarian.

FS: How did you first become aware of the vivisection and the multi-nationals' involvement in war? Where do you get all your information from?

CW: We became aware of it gradually, step by step. Things we're ignorant about now might become obvious later. The information about companies mostly comes from libraries. Sounds boring, doesn't it? Or by writing to the company direct. The animal rights societies like BUAV, HSA, etc., have newspapers which have that kind of information about vivisection. Also, the 'peace' publications, especially 'Peace News' are invaluable sources of information as are some anarchist publications. A useful address is 'Campaign Against The Arms Trade, 5 Caledonian Road, London, N1 9DX. They have lists of U.K. companies who supply to the MOD and the army.

FS: Did any of you have morals thrust upon you at an early age? Making you go against them, as to going along with them? With the track, 'The First Seven Years' in mind?

CW: We all did to a certain extent. I was brought up in a strictly Christian environment, which I did rebel against, but parts of which I've kept with me as useful. Morals which say sex is bad, masturbation is dirty, wars are OK, government bosses are acceptable. We all live with these morals, and it's up to all of us to help disseminate information which helps to prove otherwise. 'The First Seven Years' was written by Dan and is his personal view of what affected him as he grew. But it applies to most people.

FS: Have the females in the band helped you to see the problems that women have in life? Have they ever received crowd hassle?

CW: We never really got crowd hassle, but there are times when rock and roll's machismo has been made obvious. Lou, Mad Anne [Alice Nutter], and Diane have shown me what problems they have as females, by living together, we share common experiences and learn by them. We're aware that women have a lot to fight for, still. Part of that struggle is for men to recognize their own stupidity in exercising power over women, and part of that struggle is for women to work out solutions for themselves.

FS: You're doing an LP on Spiderlehead [sic] Records. What plans have you got for it?

CW: We're not sure yet. Possibly trying to use some of the ideas which opera uses to build the whole piece around a theme, not to have separate songs which begin and end. But it might be nothing at all like that!

FS: Do you think there are too many anti-vivisection groups, with them amalgamating into just one or two being better? Do you belong to any of these?

CW: They all have differ[en]t policies though, and all work in different areas. NAVS works for parliamentary reform, whilst BUAV supports direct action. Their amalgamation might help, I don't know, we're not members of any of them because we don't see the point in playing that numbers game. I'm a member of the Hunt Saboteurs Association, because they are opposed to simply using direct action to get parliament to change policies. NVDA is the end in itself. Apart from the HAS the others don't really interest me much. The ALF central HQ is unfortunately made up of armchair militants who spend money putting out newsletters advising us to all get the bastards. Human freedom, animal rights? The message from here is, do it yourself! Tear down the walls.

FS: How have your two demos sold? Do you still like them?

CW: They've sold several hundred copies--not sure how many. I think they're dated. We changed one track, 'Don't Vote', and substituted it for 'Obscene' because we didn't agree with it any more. It's representative of what we used to be like, i.e., out of tune, basic, and fairly predictable. No. It's OK. We'll stop selling it pretty soon 'cause it won't make sense to sell it totally out of date. I think we only have one or two songs from that period that we still do, and we've changed those around a lot.

FS: You seem to have the same music on some songs but with different lyrics. Why is this?

CW: It's a way of linking things. And it's a way of keeping themes and musical ideas in peoples minds. Also the words we write become less relevant quicker than the music and we don't want to throw away the music we like if we can use it to put across newer and different words.

FS: How did the ten [Diane and, maybe, Simon Commonknowledge] of you come to meet? How long have you all lived together? Do you find that being together all the time brings you all more together?

CW: We met gradually for different reasons and under different circumstances, and we've lived together for about two years, though some have lived together for up to five years. Being together creates a lot of love and strong sense of being close, but also it brings us awareness of each other. We know each others' faults as well as each others' good points, and living together can vary between being a wonderful experience to being a struggle. Communication is sometimes easy and sometimes difficult, but there is always a sense of working towards similar aims, helping each other. It isn't always easy, but it is so worth it.